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#12539021 Jul 13, 2016 at 12:43 AM
Veteran Octopus
38 Posts
Sorry for leaving the group tonight.

I just wanted to say that even though I wasn't real thrilled to be starting fresh, I was giving 110% tonight, as I always try to. We've killed these bosses before and we can do it again. What got under my skin was hearing that there was a vote to hold the lock, and continue with Kilrogg, or start fresh. I had no idea there was a vote, as I pretty much left group when no loot dropped that I wanted.

I'm in Minnesota, and our raid times here are 8:30 - 11:30. I am up at 5:30 to go to work, so I'm usually headed to bed pretty quickly after raid. I would have voted, but I think the vote was held after I left the group. I would have voted to hold the lock, but which ever way the vote went I would have been fine, as my voice would have been heard.

Some of the comments in raid chat were a bit unfounded, as if the vote would have happened while I was in group, I would have voted. The raid team should have, as a whole, been included on the vote. A majority of who voted may not have been a majority of the whole team.
+1
#12540011 Jul 13, 2016 at 11:02 AM
Guild Officer
68 Posts
Hey Yli, thanks for leaving a note. Sorry I blew my top last night.


So I think the issue distills down to this:

We held a vote after council loot. However, nobody was paying attention to who had left and who had stayed and we just added up the numbers. Honestly, that's the first time prog. decisions have had a vote, and it was done poorly. Sorry about that.


I think Zen had a really good idea to prevent this from occurring in the future:

Regardless of how a prog. decision is made we should always post our plan both on the website and in the guild note. This way everyone is on the same page regarding what boss we're pulling. I am going to try to take point on this and make updates every Thursday after raid. If we haven't decided yet I'll just post TBD and update as soon as we know what would be best for most folks.


The problem with voting in our guild:

We have a guild full of intelligent raiders. As such, everyone has their own idea of which way we should go as a team, and that's a good thing. If we vote in the future I'd like to say that we should do it on the website. That way it'll be up for five days and everyone will have plenty of time to think about their decision and weigh in. The major flaw with that plan is that I don't think everyone has a login or checks the website. One thing we should all learn from this event is that a live-vote is not going to work.


How we've made prog. decisions in the past (gear v prog.):

Generally, prog. decisions have been made by the officers/Dante. If most of the guild needs gear from a boss, we'll try to down it. The reasoning behind saving the lockout at Kormrok was that we were so close to downing him that we were certain we'd win and get a bunch of folks their tier helm. I think we wanted to open this week's prog. decision to the raid because we weren't sure precisely how many folks needed gear.


We don't like ivory towers:

If you disagree with any prog. decision that is posted in the future (as I will start posting them on Thursday nights). Please contact an officer or make a post on the website explaining why you disagree with the direction we're going. Lets have a guild discussion about it. I want everyone to know why a prog. decision was made. Though I suspect that this will be unnecessary most weeks, it will be useful for controversial decisions.


Regarding the lockout: Pal has it saved on an alt and I'm not sure about others but I fully intend to down Mythic Kilrog before Legion.


I know you give 110% Yli, we've been impressed with your raiding since day 1. I think we have a great team going, and I don't want this to cause anyone to leave. The problem we had last night was a problem of passion, everyone wanted to be MORE involved, and I think that's a damn good problem to have. Shlrrrr-pop!

Last night we made lemonade by downing H archy again. Grats to Bella on his new Heroic trinket, Grats to Mashka on her new staff, that rando pally's alt got the sword, and another BiS piece dropped for something. It was insane, highest quality drops I have ever seen from that boss.



TL;DR I'm posting progression decisions on Thursday. You're all amazing. Ideas are welcome.
+4
#12541268 Jul 13, 2016 at 06:52 PM
Veteran Octopus
39 Posts
I'd like to offer some clarification on my perspective on how things escalated to the level that they did last night.

I think a major component, at least for me, was how dismissive the officers seemed of the (in my opinion) legitimate questions about the decision of fresh vs lockout, which may have been exacerbated by the confusion on what we were doing all week. For example, there were at least 5 of us that I talked to (25% of the raid) that did not know we were starting fresh, which means that in all likelihood that 40% of the raid at least did not know what was going on. The vote was reported like a unanimous decision by the entire raid group, but I know for a fact that at least 4 people voted to keep the lockout after loot was handed out since I was one of them. Instead of having a re-vote or at least discussing it for a minute or two, it was treated like an unchangeable decision (even though Pal has a lockout).

After that, peoples' feelings were dismissed with an attitude of "Oh we're here now and people should just deal with it" which is the thing they have to do since there's no going back by that point, however the lack of understanding of why people were upset or why people may not play as well when they're upset was contributing to the negative attitude during the reaver pulls (people aren't robots and being upset definitely affects focus). Not to mention the insinuations that people aren't ready for mythic raiding because they're angry at completely non game-mechanic related issues is just silly and insulting.

People weren't upset because we kept wiping (how would we have gotten this far if everyone was that fragile?), but rather because they were feeling ignored/unimportant and then being told that they should be doing better because they shouldn't let their emotions affect (Yes, Bella, this is the right usage ;) ) them. Ylinimi and kesk didn't leave because they're ragequitters who can't handle wiping to bosses they should've beaten (If you saw our other raid team we were in before this, you'd definitely understand that....); they left because the situation was escalating and they decided to remove themselves from it instead of contributing. I probably would've left at that point too, however I can't ever pull myself away from anything, soooo. It doesn't mean we don't love it here or want to quit/ragequit everything, just that it was a bad night and we should all clear up any issues we have and communicate our thoughts/etc better so that this doesn't happen again.

Bottom line is that I think that pretty much everything in Acheron's post is correct and sounds like a great idea. I think that making sure everyone is heard and that peoples' criticisms, even if they don't end up changing anything overall (It is Dante's/the officers final say, after all), are at least heard and acknowledged.
+1
#12541420 Jul 13, 2016 at 07:58 PM
Veteran Octopus
35 Posts
Yes. Shrykos has basically hit all of the points I wanted to address.

#12541268 Shrykos wrote:

I'd like to offer some clarification on my perspective on how things escalated to the level that they did last night.

I think a major component, at least for me, was how dismissive the officers seemed of the (in my opinion) legitimate questions about the decision of fresh vs lockout, which may have been exacerbated by the confusion on what we were doing all week. For example, there were at least 5 of us that I talked to (25% of the raid) that did not know we were starting fresh, which means that in all likelihood that 40% of the raid at least did not know what was going on. The vote was reported like a unanimous decision by the entire raid group, but I know for a fact that at least 4 people voted to keep the lockout after loot was handed out since I was one of them. Instead of having a re-vote or at least discussing it for a minute or two, it was treated like an unchangeable decision (even though Pal has a lockout).



I'll be completely frank here. It seemed like it was just glanced at that the officers wanted to do fresh and that was decided to be the 'majority' vote. The fact that there were people that didn't even know there was a vote sort of solidified this impression to me.

#12541268 Shrykos wrote:


After that, peoples' feelings were dismissed with an attitude of "Oh we're here now and people should just deal with it" which is the thing they have to do since there's no going back by that point, however the lack of understanding of why people were upset or why people may not play as well when they're upset was contributing to the negative attitude during the reaver pulls (people aren't robots and being upset definitely affects focus). Not to mention the insinuations that people aren't ready for mythic raiding because they're angry at completely non game-mechanic related issues is just silly and insulting.



The blatant dismissal of people's thoughts and opinions was incredibly frustrating. Instead of being brushed aside with "we're here now, deal with it," it should've been addressed appropriately and especially not with, "then you should have fucking said something when we had the fucking vote, right?" I appreciate seeing that there is an apology for that, but still, one needs to be careful with bringing that sort of attitude into a raid setting, especially from an officer.

#12541268 Shrykos wrote:


People weren't upset because we kept wiping (how would we have gotten this far if everyone was that fragile?), but rather because they were feeling ignored/unimportant and then being told that they should be doing better because they shouldn't let their emotions affect (Yes, Bella, this is the right usage ;) ) them. Ylinimi and kesk didn't leave because they're ragequitters who can't handle wiping to bosses they should've beaten (If you saw our other raid team we were in before this, you'd definitely understand that....); they left because the situation was escalating and they decided to remove themselves from it instead of contributing. I probably would've left at that point too, however I can't ever pull myself away from anything, soooo. It doesn't mean we don't love it here or want to quit/ragequit everything, just that it was a bad night and we should all clear up any issues we have and communicate our thoughts/etc better so that this doesn't happen again.



If any one thinks that I left because of "ragequitting" and being too fragile to handle wiping, I'm greatly disappointed. I left because of the dismissal of thoughts and opinions, the further revealing that the voting was handled exceptionally poorly, that communication had been handled poorly (Pal didn't even know what we were doing when I asked earlier in the day, Zen thought we were doing Kilrogg, for examples) and the escalation of the situation.

I'm not thrilled that we started fresh again. However if I was that against it I wouldn't have even come to raid. But, I was there for everyone else, bringing my all, same as Yli.


#12541268 Shrykos wrote:


Bottom line is that I think that pretty much everything in Acheron's post is correct and sounds like a great idea. I think that making sure everyone is heard and that peoples' criticisms, even if they don't end up changing anything overall (It is Dante's/the officers final say, after all), are at least heard and acknowledged.



Agreed.
+0
#12541465 Jul 13, 2016 at 08:30 PM
Guild Officer
68 Posts
#12541268 Shrykos wrote:

Instead of having a re-vote or at least discussing it for a minute or two, it was treated like an unchangeable decision (even though Pal has a lockout).



You can't switch lockout once you've downed a boss (in mythic). It was an unchangeable decision at that point. Which was precisely why I got so frustrated. At lest half of the folks in the guild didn't know that it was a controversial decision until we were in the middle of IR wipes.

If there was any discussion about this prior to raid chat blowing up post Assault, I was not in the know.
+2
#12541616 Jul 13, 2016 at 09:38 PM
Guild Officer
18 Posts
Things certainly got out of hand Tuesday, but the fact it happened, at the very least, brought a variety of issues to the surface, where they can be addressed, and Acheron's post was very on point with that, and I agree with the measures he said.

I apologize for my part with the entire episode, I did not mean for any of my comments to be dismissive of peoples opinions. That was not my intention at all, I was hoping we could focus more on the task at hand of killing Reaver and such and discuss it more later, not in the middle of our raid time, but that was a bad decision and my error and I apologize for it.

And although I do have the lockout after Council, and after Reaver on another toon, neither will help us out this week, because once you get saved, from either a previous lockout or from killing a single boss, there is no turning back, even if you enter at a lockout and don't kill a boss, you are saved the moment you click the box saying that you will be.

Onto matter of the vote, yes it was handled poorly and communicated even worse in the end, but that just means we need to learn from it, which Acheron addressed in his earlier post. I will say for the record, that I didn't even know the had been a vote until Tuesday shortly before raid lol, and though I would've really liked to have killed Kilrogg, I still would've voted for fresh because from my point of view, that would've been the better option. Kilrogg has awesome gear for me, but I know many people still needed items from the earlier bosses, Tier from Kormork and M Council is practically a grab bag of upgrades for people that I wouldn't want to skip. And there is the fact that if we would beat Kilrogg, we would only have Gorefiend in front of us, and to me, it would seem like a slightly wasted raid week to be honest. Yes we would've gotten a new raid boss down, but from my research and talking to others about M Gorefiend, I don't think that's a boss we're beating in a single week lol. But that's enough wasting chat space on "what-if" 's.

Still I'm, in a way, glad this all came up, because all these thoughts and problems shows us all where we can improve! So if anyone has a suggestion about something, or a problem comes up that needs addressing; please ask away, bring it up, let someone know about it! I (and Dante and the other officers) are here to help. I never think I belong in these guild officer or such positions, but I usually end up in them, so I must be doing something correctly. And if anything I think it's because I try to help people out with whatever problem or situation comes their/our way.

I believe the saying is "What doesn't kill you makes you stronger" and I think that is appropriate for this situation. This isn't something to kill this guild and group, this is something to use to get all the stronger! (Though don't tell Reaver that saying, because I think I've died every time we killed her lol)
+3
#12541697 Jul 13, 2016 at 10:34 PM
Veteran Octopus
38 Posts
I appreciate the responses everyone. This is a good discussion.

I'd also like to say that I didn't leave because we were wiping, as I've stuck with the all the wipes up till this point. We've had days on most of these bosses were all we did was hand gold to the repair mount vendors. Some of those days we progress a little, and then we regress a little. We pick ourselves up and give it another try. Other days we progress and get the kill. That's part of raiding. Like Shrykos said, our old raid team would wipe all night on some normal bosses, and we all stuck it out. (You all would have laughed pretty hard at our first attempts at heroic Assault, it was horrible)

I left because I felt if I had stayed, the conversation would have gotten worse and I would have said something I regretted. (I had some choice words for Acheron after his comment, but I didn't hit enter, I deleted it instead and said "later all.")

I think Keskein hit on something that probably was a tipping point for me. The dismissal of the fact that not everyone was included in the vote, but should have known about everything that became of it. Acheron (Zen?) threw out some good ways to keep informed, and I look forward to to seeing how they may work out.

As a fairly new person to the group, and with not having transferred Ylinimi over to Dalaran yet, there are times I feel a bit disconnected from the group. Yes, I have a few lowby alts in the guild, but they aren't my main and I'm not on them like I am Ylinimi. I try to hop on one of them to check out the messages every couple of days, but there are things I'm trying to wrap up before Legion drops.

Acheron, I didn't know about the way Mythic lockouts worked. That is good to know, so thank you.

Also, there wasn't exactly discussion on the lock out, but there were individual comments in raid chat early on, even before we pulled trash on Assault, that didn't seem to be addressed by any of the officers. (BTW, i don't know who all the officers are really o.0)

While I appreciate that we have a Raid Leader and Officers, this is a team after all. I know that leadership may want to do something a certain way, that is fine with me. The only thing I ask is that the whole team is kept abreast of the situation. I think with some of the items Acheron talked about, we are on that course.

Thank you all!
+0
#12541711 Jul 13, 2016 at 10:44 PM
Veteran Octopus
39 Posts
I was referring to before we started trash when I brought up whether we were doing Kilrogg or not (this is why I waited so long to start trash). Dante basically said that we were doing fresh and people needed gear, so I figured it was just a leader decision and not based on the vote after thursday's raid, which was about 50:50 when I left. I guess not many others may have been present/paying attention since we were still filling and hadn't started trash yet, which may have caused it to go unnoticed.
+0
#12541810 Jul 13, 2016 at 11:36 PM
Veteran Octopus
35 Posts
I wasn't going to bring this up originally since I didn't think it was pertinent to the overarching idea of the thread, but since it was brought up:

My main gripe with starting fresh again so frequently is that with pre-patch looming so close (PTR was apparently just marked as release; excitement!), to what degree are these specific BiS pieces of gear -absolutely- necessary to continue pushing progression? To me, it seems in general our main issues come from mechanic snafus, not overall DPS. Better gear is undeniably a plus, however I feel we'd have a boost in improvement just as well from looking at logs, observing our mistakes and seeing where we can better our rotations.

It's also likely that a few classes will have changes in secondary stat priority. Due to tuning, it's all still up in the air. But, Mistweaver is a great example. Right now the first priority secondary stat for them is multistrike... Which is going away. MW's mastery ability in WoD is basically garbage and is dead last in priority. Legion however is bringing MW a much better mastery ability and it's looking like it's going to be the new number one priority. Which is probably going to be awkward for any MW that has very little mastery.

And of course, just plain 'ol getting down new bosses pre-nerf with our characters as they are now just feels like a much better accomplishment.
+0
#12541893 Jul 14, 2016 at 12:24 AM
Guild Master
58 Posts
Okay, here is the deal, I pulled the trigger on starting fresh because I felt that we got lucky with our Council Kill. I believed that doing it again would do us well not to mention that there was/is still some gear that people could really use. Pal finally got the shield that he really needed from Assault for starters.

I also didn't feel I had enough votes to hold the lockout, there were less than a handful that wanted to hold the lockout. Granted that there were apparently some people who didn't notice that we were trying to take vote. However, I will say this....even if it were a 50/50 vote I wouldn't have saved the lockout. As the GM and raid lead, I felt that the ENTIRE team would benefit more from a fresh start again. Honestly, just for a chance at some needed gear. Some of you still need your tier helm from Kormrok, Pal (main tank) needed the shield, some of our DPS need trinkets from Council, Acheron needs his chest from Iron Reaver, and there are more of you who may not know what gear you need from the bosses, that I know you all can beat. I look into this stuff constantly. So when I make a decision that you don't like, just understand that I am making a decision that will benefit the team as a whole. I don't do it for me, this isn't the Dante show or anything like that. To be completely honest, I am burnt out and have been for a while.

Now....Kilrogg is an easier fight than council, so it is said. However...Gorefiend is next. Gorefiend will make you all very frustrated and I am in no rush to fight him. I highly doubt that we will kill Gorefiend before the expansion drops anyhow. Must guilds take 200-300 attempts on Mythic Gorefiend before the finally kill him. Then when they do, they NEVER GO BACK (more reason to start fresh now).

Something else to keep in mind is this. I had zero intentions to progress through Mythic HFC. None. Because I didn't want the headache before an expansion. Keeping that in mind I am very happy that we are even 4/13 on a mythic difficulty. The octopus Club is ranked 15th out of 200+ active guilds. There are 12,000 players on Dalaran and we have, arguably, some of THE best players. That's freaking awesome in my opinion. Some of the core people who have been with me since highmaul never beat highmaul as a group, we never progressed past the first 4 bosses in BRF, and when HFC came around we struggled so hard on Normal Gorefiend. We wiped over 100 times before our first kill. So even if we were to stop raiding now I would be a happy camper. I know you all don't want to stop so we will continue.

Had we performed like we usually do, we would probably be looking at Kilrogg tomorrow night because I know that you all are capable of making that happen. This is what I took into consideration when I decided to start us fresh. However, since we struggled last night and had to call raid an hour early because some people left and the fire in you all was put out, it will be less likely that we see Kilrogg this week and THAT IS OKAY! There is no reason to get upset about it. We all try to enjoy playing this game, right?

Seriousface made an interesting point to me last night after raid too. Most Mythic progression guild replace people who under perform on certain fights. This hasn't been a guild that does that. When people under perform some of us do what we can to help them in between attempts instead of saying "Hey, you're not doing well right now so it would be best that you sit out." Would anyone like to be told that? No. No you all wouldn't. Some of you really do under perform on some of these mythic bosses but I don't care that much as long as you are trying to do better after each attempt. I get frustrated when people who CAN do better make the SAME mistakes over and over. Like last night on Iron Reaver. If you didn't care for last night's raid because I didn't save the lockout then please come back Tomorrow with a better attitude about it. We are team.

That all being said wherever we leave off tomorrow is where I will save the lockout for next week. If pre-patch drops next week then we most likely will not raid mythic and will re-learn stuff in a heroic difficulty. We will play all of that by ear though. If half way through raid you all feel great about doing mythic then we will simply make the change. Also, I am glad some of you decided to talk about this instead of just sweeping it under the rug.
+2
#12541905 Jul 14, 2016 at 12:30 AM
Guild Master
58 Posts
I also want to make it clear that leaving our Mythic raid, more than half way through is really not cool. It puts the entire team in a bind and forces the group to end raid. We can't just PuG people for mythic difficulty like we can in Heroic. Finding the right people to replace my regulars is more difficult than you think. Not to mention, I can't guarantee PuGs a spot for the next raid night. If I can't guarantee them a spot then they will not try their best or they will not join. If you have an issue you need to chat me up or one of the officers. Don't create a problem in Raid chat, please. Request to talk with me in a different vent channel or whisper me.
+2
#12541953 Jul 14, 2016 at 01:06 AM · Edited 3 years ago
Veteran Octopus
39 Posts
It's also really not cool to swear at and demean people, which is why the leaving happened. Don't act like it was just out of lack of dedication or something.

Now, Acheron apologized and had some great ideas for going forward so I highly doubt anyone is going to be bitter about it since it seems like we're moving past the situation, but statements like that do not help the feeling of some people mattering more than others that ylinimi mentioned. The person who was called out and decided to walk away instead of escalating things shouldn't be getting called out on here too for an issue that is pretty much resolved.

No one quits on the guild, period. You don't need to remind us that it's not cool because we already know.

Clarification: I'm not saying you should yell at Acheron or anything. I think that everyone knows what happened and understands each other and doesn't need to be talked down to and told basic things that they already know. We're all adults here (I think?).
+0
#12541954 Jul 14, 2016 at 01:06 AM
Veteran Octopus
35 Posts
#12541905 Dante wrote:

I also want to make it clear that leaving our Mythic raid, more than half way through is really not cool. It puts the entire team in a bind and forces the group to end raid. We can't just PuG people for mythic difficulty like we can in Heroic. Finding the right people to replace my regulars is more difficult than you think. Not to mention, I can't guarantee PuGs a spot for the next raid night. If I can't guarantee them a spot then they will not try their best or they will not join. If you have an issue you need to chat me up or one of the officers. Don't create a problem in Raid chat, please. Request to talk with me in a different vent channel or whisper me.



I agree. It is not cool. The reasons for why I left were not cool things, either. In addition, my hands were shaking out of pure frustration. There was no way a good rotation was coming out of me after that point.
+0
#12542028 Jul 14, 2016 at 01:59 AM
Guild Master
58 Posts
#12541953 Shrykos wrote:

It's also really not cool to swear at and demean people, which is why the leaving happened. Don't act like it was just out of lack of dedication or something.

Now, Acheron apologized and had some great ideas for going forward so I highly doubt anyone is going to be bitter about it since it seems like we're moving past the situation, but statements like that do not help the feeling of some people mattering more than others that ylinimi mentioned. The person who was called out and decided to walk away instead of escalating things shouldn't be getting called out on here too for an issue that is pretty much resolved.

No one quits on the guild, period. You don't need to remind us that it's not cool because we already know.

Clarification: I'm not saying you should yell at Acheron or anything. I think that everyone knows what happened and understands each other and doesn't need to be talked down to and told basic things that they already know. We're all adults here (I think?).





Clarification: I am not acting like nobody did anything wrong nor am I talking down to anyone. I am simply telling it how it is and why I decided on starting fresh. I wrote a rather lengthy post in response to all of this. All further disagreements and problems during raid should just be directed to myself or an officer that way things don't get out of hand like they did.
+2
#12542087 Jul 14, 2016 at 02:44 AM
Guild Officer
6 Posts
I really like that we are talking about this, instead of keeping it bottled up. Tuesday was not fun for anyone but let's move on from there and make Thursday better. Like Pal said. Lets get stronger instead of breaking. Sorry I didn't realize the discussion going on before it was full blown argument. I was very sleepy Tuesday. It has been mentioned several times in this forum that people felt like they're not being heard. While I personally don't feel this, I can't help but feel this is partly on me because I'm an officer. I should be listening more. Please if you do have a complaint/concern/just want to talk something through something I'm here, and I think I speak for all the guild officers when I say we're here for you. It was mentioned that not everyone knows who the guild officers are. The officers include me, Kalica, Acheron, Yari, Pal, and Tadiac. I've been burned out on WoD for quite a while and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one; however, I come back for the people. This group is filled with a great bunch of people and it really makes my day better when I hang out with you guys.
+6
#12542159 Jul 14, 2016 at 03:37 AM
Guild Officer
5 Posts
I have been pretty quiet but also unaware there was an issue until it was too late. I'm actually kind of sad I didn't know it was a problem and I also feel that is my partly fault for not being more engaged lately.

As others have said, I am also feeling the burnout of this content but keep coming back to be with you guys (and for more chances at random transmog... errr gear upgrades).

I'm pretty sure this is an awesome group of people and we are awesome at coming to consensus on things and how to have the most fun.

I am actually pretty neutral on most things as long as the group is having fun and feeling accomplished as a whole. If there is ever an issue or something going down that makes someone uncomfortable, I would be happy to speak up for you to help find solutions. Or if you just want someone to talk to, I am always up for chatting about anything.

I also agree that this is a learning experience and will make us stronger. As we prepare for awesome fun times in Legion, double-jumping around frolicking on our all demon hunter raid composition, this is a great opportunity to become closer as a group.
+5
#12542753 Jul 14, 2016 at 09:58 AM
Veteran Octopus
38 Posts
#12541905 Dante wrote:

I also want to make it clear that leaving our Mythic raid, more than half way through is really not cool. It puts the entire team in a bind and forces the group to end raid. We can't just PuG people for mythic difficulty like we can in Heroic. Finding the right people to replace my regulars is more difficult than you think. Not to mention, I can't guarantee PuGs a spot for the next raid night. If I can't guarantee them a spot then they will not try their best or they will not join. If you have an issue you need to chat me up or one of the officers. Don't create a problem in Raid chat, please. Request to talk with me in a different vent channel or whisper me.



3 things I'd like to respond to here. First, I know I left raid and put the group in a bind. I guarantee I would have been a bigger hindrance to the group if I had stayed. Not that I would have sabotaged anything, but that my performance would have been extremely poor. My mind was nowhere near raiding once I was belittled.

2nd, I'm not the only one who's left in the past. Serious left early to go do "homework" when council wasn't going well. Maybe he let you know that prior to joining, but from my standpoint he was leaving because we weren't getting the fight done. Our raid times haven't changed, so if his homework load was high enough he had to leave raid early, then he should have bowed out completely to allow someone to.fill his spot. Maybe you addressed this with him, maybe not, that is between you and him. All I'm saying is apples to apples please.

3rd is, when I'm being talked down to by the RL and an officer, I didn't exactly have an outlet to talk to. I would have reacted completely different if say Zen (just using as an example) had said the things in chat versus the RL and Officer. I could have gone to you or Acheron. Acheron is the only officer I knew about before this.

I maybe should have refrained from the chat comment I said, but I tried to choose a word that conveyed being irritated more so than angry about the lock out. I used "miffed" because I felt that was kind of a soft way of stating that. I also said the comment because I wasn't the only one who felt that way. The way my comment made chat explode was not my intended outcome either. But I think it showed that we are all a little burned out.

You've done a good job Dante leading this group. As RL you get a little more pressure than the rest of us. Herding up a group of people is not an easy task.

+0
#12543050 Jul 14, 2016 at 11:58 AM
5 Posts
After everything I've read, I'm glad to see that these issues are getting solved! If anything I said offended anyone in anyway, I do apologies.

But Dante 's decision wasn't made lightly, he did take a considerable amount of time to pull the trigger. But regardless on where you guys start, you're all making strides farm ahead than most of the players on Dalaran. But you're all right, this decision should've been done in a better way.

In light of the events though, I hope that we can all push forward and kill each boss and look at M Killrogg, I'll tell you, even though he's an easier fight than Council he will take some time to getting use to. This fight is another dps and mechanics check, people will need to be on top of your game
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#12543063 Jul 14, 2016 at 12:04 PM · Edited 3 years ago
5 Posts
#12542753 Ylinimi wrote:

[quote_post12541905 user=2155532]
I'm not the only one who's left in the past. Serious left early to go do "homework" when council wasn't going well. Maybe he let you know that prior to joining, but from my standpoint he was leaving because we weren't getting the fight done.



Please keep in mind, i'm taking an intense six week calculus course :(, I didn't leave because of anything pertaining to the raid. I just have a lot of math problems to work on before the next day. I'm a biology/physic's major.

I go to class everyday, Mon-Thursday for the next four weeks for five hours a day >< it's really stressful. So when I did leave early it was only because I had 6 sections of homework to do and some studying for an exam the next day.

I do apologize if it looked like I left because of the raid not going so well.
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#12543158 Jul 14, 2016 at 12:47 PM
Veteran Octopus
38 Posts
#12543063 Seriousface wrote:

#12542753 Ylinimi wrote:

[quote_post12541905 user=2155532]
I'm not the only one who's left in the past. Serious left early to go do "homework" when council wasn't going well. Maybe he let you know that prior to joining, but from my standpoint he was leaving because we weren't getting the fight done.



Please keep in mind, i'm taking an intense six week calculus course :(, I didn't leave because of anything pertaining to the raid. I just have a lot of math problems to work on before the next day. I'm a biology/physic's major.

I go to class everyday, Mon-Thursday for the next four weeks for five hours a day >< it's really stressful. So when I did leave early it was only because I had 6 sections of homework to do and some studying for an exam the next day.

I do apologize if it looked like I left because of the raid not going so well.


Understandable Serious. But the effect of you leaving early was identical to me leaving. The group was left short handed. We tried a few more times but ended early due to not having enough people.
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